For the uninitiated, Ruth and Michael Paine were the people who allowed Marina Oswald to stay in their home in Irving while Lee Harvey Oswald lived in Dallas at 1026 N Beckley. (Note: I was able to go inside the Paine home and snap some photos while they were restoring the property for use as a museum.) Lone nut-theorists see Mrs. Paine as one of the most important witnesses in the case, and her garage as the repository of the famous Minox camera that allegedly took some very compromising photos of Oswald. For others, Mrs. Paine’s rather unusual high-level connections, as well as a garage that had an odd habit of producing evidence just when the authorities needed it, seem suspicious.
Max kindly agreed to answer a few projects about his ongoing project, which is at Kickstarter now but only until April 22, 2017.
JOE GREEN: Can you say how you managed to get Ruth Paine on camera?
MAX GOOD: I first approached Ruth with the idea of making a film in 2013. At the time, I was a graduate student in the documentary MFA program at Stanford. She asked me if I was familiar with the Edwin Walker shooting and I explained that I was. This is usually the first thing she asks anyone who wants to interview her. I think it helped that I was a student at the time. I told her that I wanted tell her story and explore some of the suspicions that had been aimed at her and Michael. The film was a chance for her respond to some of the harsh accusations out there. I tried to go into the project as open-minded as possible and eventually she agreed to participate.
How familiar are you with the assassination literature? How did you get started in reading the literature?
I’m 38 and I probably read my first JFK book about ten years ago. The first book was Peter Dale Scott’s Deep Politics and the Death of JFK, which is a great book but probably not the best for a beginner. [Author’s note: Agreed, on both counts.] The second book was E. Martin Schotz’s History Will Not Absolve Us, which I highly recommend to people just starting to learn about this issue. I’ve probably read about ten books total—which is not much compared to many serious students of the assassination. I’ve tried to make myself familiar with the writings of those who argue against conspiracy as well. As the best researchers know, critical thinking involves the consideration of multiple perspectives and the willingness to reexamine your positions. There is a lot of suspect material out there, on both sides.
I first read about the curious connections between the Paines and the intelligence world in James Douglass’ JFK and the Unspeakable. Later, I also read various things online. It wasn’t until I started working on the film, that I was actually able to start digging up some of the primary documents. According to this declassified document, Ruth’s’ sister, Sylvia Hyde Hoke, was identified as an employee of CIA. Her father, William Avery Hyde, was considered for a CIA assignment in Vietnam in 1957, but not used, according to this document. Michael Paine’s family also has some interesting connections to Allen Dulles through his mother. You can read more about the Paines in Jim DiEugenio’s Destiny Betrayed and George Michael Evica’s A Certain Arrogance.
Has she seen the film? If so, did she render an opinion?
The film isn’t done, so she hasn’t seen it. The first thing she saw was the Kickstarter campaign and trailer. She said it was “somewhat distressing.” I don’t intend the film to be hurtful towards Ruth and I would like to keep a dialog open.
Vincent Salandria, a legend among researchers, has not often participated in these films. How did you approach him?
I exchanged a few emails with Martin Schotz back in 2006, after reading his book. He brought Vince Salandria into the conversation and I very much appreciated their insightful analysis of the case. I hadn’t spoken to them in years, but when I started working on the film, they were among the first experts I reached out to.
Speaking of Marty's History Will Not Absolve Us, this is also one of my favorites along with False Mystery, although you do not often see discussion of it in the research community. What attracts you about the book? Is there value in trying to see the psychological motives behind the big picture of the assassination and foreign policy?
The psychological and philosophical aspects of the case are more interesting to me than anything else. I think I first heard about Martin Schotz's book from Mark Robinowitz’s Oil Empire website. Marty’s analysis cuts to the heart of the issue and explains how all the great research has had so little impact on the wider society. Like many others, I’ve spent a lot of time familiarizing myself with the evidence. But I also feel that some of that energy is channeled towards a never-ending search for the final answer, the smoking gun. The fact is that mountains of evidence have already been uncovered. Perhaps the continuing search can be a form of distraction and denial. This is related to Vince Salandria’s idea of a “false mystery.” Here’s a great quote:
"One of the primary means of immobilizing the American people politically today is to hold them in a state of confusion in which anything can be believed and nothing can be known… nothing of significance, that is."
-- E. Martin Schotz, History Will Not Absolve Us: Orwellian Control, Public Denial, and the Murder of President Kennedy
That was also a favorite quote of John Judge.
I wanted to make films from the time I was in college, but I always felt like it was too tough to break into. I worked on a documentary with some friends about underground bicycle gangs, B.I.K.E. (2006), and on the Academy Award-nominated The Most Dangerous Man in America: Daniel Ellsberg & the Pentagon Papers (2009). But it wasn’t until I finished my own feature documentary, Vigilante Vigilante: The Battle for Expression (2011), that I really felt like I could be a filmmaker. That film was on Netflix and got great reviews, but I was still broke after making it. I went back to grad school for documentary at 35 so I could get the skills and credentials to continue making more films. It’s still tough to make it as an independent documentary filmmaker and I work freelance editing and shooting to survive.
Obviously you don't believe that this is all ancient history, or there was no reason to make the film. What connects 11/22/1963 to now?
This is something that people unfamiliar with the JFK assassination often wonder—what’s the appeal, what’s the point of spending so much time on this in 2017? Inherent in the question is an assumption that we will never know the truth, that it’s already been settled, or that it doesn’t matter either way. People who have studied the history understand that there is a direct line through the Cold War and the JFK assassination through the Vietnam War and on to the War on Terror and our current situation. If it’s true that we had a silent and successful coup in 1963, we are obviously not living in the democracy that we claim to be. The fact that so much amazing research deconstructing the “official story” has been ignored and marginalized says a lot about the state of the media in this country.
How did you select the other figures who are interviewed in the film? It runs the gamut from Jim, Salandria, Schotz, Dr. Gary Aguilar, [who also appeared in The Men Who Killed Kennedy and Randy Benson's The Searchers] and Bill Simpich, to Priscilla Johnson MacMillan. How did that come about?
I reached out to many people for interviews. John Judge was one of the first people I contacted, but he passed away before I started filming. Thomas Mallon declined an interview. I tried to reach Gerald Posner but could never get ahold of him. I wanted to include both sides of the debate (on the Paines and the assassination). I guess it’s ironic that the two authors (Max Holland and Priscilla McMillan) I got who are on the side of the “official story” have been linked to the CIA. If any non-CIA linked experts want to come forward to represent the “lone-nut” position, I would be happy to interview them. [Author’s note: I would love to hear from this, I suspect imaginary, person as well.]
Assuming you get the finishing funds, do you have a plan for what comes next? Do you know what that finished film will look like in terms of its basic shape?
If I’m able to raise the $25K on Kickstarter, I will be hiring an editor and working alongside them to finish the film within the next year. The film will be 60-90 minutes and will interweave Ruth’s first hand story with the opposing voices from the conspiracy and anti-conspiracy camps. As the film progresses, it will go deeper into the various suspicions and evidence surrounding the Paines. I have some new leads and witnesses that have never spoken publicly before.
Has making this film changed any of your ideas about history? Has it caused you to reflect on any other historical "truths" in our society?
I was familiar with most of this stuff before starting the film, so I wouldn’t say it has changed my mind. We live in an empire that is starting to show some cracks. A lot of myths go into maintaining an empire.